Public Commander Keen Forum

Galaxieretter · Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 17:26 Post subject: Release date for RAGE

October 4th, 2011.

RAGE!

Furious

ABOUT-TIME!

Who's getting it? You all know me, if iD Software would garg in a bag, and sell it, I would still buy it.
But it's iD Software, they never garg in a bag, they only garg all over the rest of the computer-gaming industry.

Anyone? What say you? Care, don't care, it's iD Software's new game!
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Paramultart · VBB's Partner in Crime Joined: 26 Jul 2010 Posts: 1797

When I first found out that Carmack coded a new engine from scratch (in one night) in 2007, I was initially very excited. Then I saw screen shots and saw the setting, and was immediately disappointed.

After seeing recent videos and whatnot though, I can definitely say I am looking forward to this title.

I probably won't be buying any games any time soon, but I will definitely play it when I have the chance.
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VikingBoyBilly · Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:41 Post subject:

John Carmack (and >200 of his umpa loompahs) was involved. Tom Hall and John Romero wasn't. It doesn't have music from Bobby Prince, and Adrian Carmack was fucled over by John Carmack so it doesn't have his art.

/thread.
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Galaxieretter · Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 13:55 Post subject:

I really don't care WHO works on the games, that stuff is always overrated. More often than not, I believe computer and video games are stunted because the developers always bring the same people on the project because their fanboys demand it, instead of companies bringing on "new blood," if you will, and coming from a completely new direction for a computer game.

Robert Prince is honestly a sucky composer, he just made some good songs for early 90's computer games. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of his work, Commander Keen being among his best, but otherwise, he sucks. (The "Boss" theme - Major Stryker.)
He was good at doing what he did, and that was being one of the first people to make midis in the early 90's for computer games, and working with memory limitations, but with songs today being able to use, virtually limitless amounts of memory and with new programs and repeaters for mixing actual audio tracks, I don't think Mr. Prince could compete. Take for example, that one audio track he released for Doom 3, saying "if I would have been asked to make a theme song track for Doom 3, this is what it would be" (anyone remember that? Anyone have a copy?) as compared to the actual Tool song...
It's an unfair contest to be honest.

And I'm sorry, what do you expect, Adrian Carmack to draw each and every texture by himself? Even if he was still at iD Software, it's not like there aren't better texture artists out there in the world, and at this point, with the amount of funding and money iD Software has and probably pays their people, they most likely hired ultra-professionals for the company. While Adrian Carmack is good, I don't know if he has what it takes for the next generation of ultra-art which is going into computer games these days. (Most of them.)
I don't know, though, as I have not seen any of his newer art, so I could be wrong with the previous paragraph.
Regardless, there is no way he could have made all the 3D models, textures and the like for the game.

Tom Hall is too sick to work on another game, as far as I can see, aside from the fact that he would have injected Rage full of noobery. Even given a chance to do another Commander Keen game, I don't know if he would at this point. People get old, and Carmack gets old with everyone else, hopefully he'll stick around for Quake 5 and Doom 4, but I think Tom Hall's done.

To be honest, programmers and the artists make the game, and with Carmack's work, he makes REALLY good Open GL rendering engines, better than many gaming corporations' DX 10 engines. The only engine I would say looks better than Wolfenstein (2009) would be Metro 2033, and that was DX 11, yet, for the amount of processing power that Metro 2033 took over Wolfenstein, and the amount of power (electricity) that is between them both, iD Software's Open GL engine is vastly superior in efficiency of its filters and lighting. Perhaps Crysis 2 has an engine which rivals Wolfenstein but that's the only one I know of, and that came what, 2 years later?

Yeah, I liked the 90's iD Software as much as the next, but I could care less about who "screwed over" who, so long as they make good games, which Rage is going to be.

In other words, those people did good at what they did in the 90's, but they are no longer at the head of their field, unlike John Carmack, who is the best graphics engine programmer in the industry.
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wiivn · Vorticon Elite Joined: 08 Jan 2008 Posts: 1408

How about a cup of RAGE? Galaxieretter is a bit extreme at his points, but I agree with the most of what he says. Nevertheless the game will be awesome and I'm looking forward to it. The only concern though is that I might need a new video card.

RoboBlue · It's that one guy. Joined: 23 Apr 2008 Posts: 855

To be fair (and balance out GR's depressing statements), there seem to be fewer fun games today than there were in the 90s. Bioshock looked/sounded fantastic, and the plot was really intriguing, but the gameplay bored me in minutes.
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VikingBoyBilly · Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 16:12 Post subject:

Although I agree with all of galaxie's arguments (Kevin Schilder was a much better Midi composer during the mid-90's period imo), I firmly stand in my position and I won't budge. Yeah, you can call me closed minded, because I'm not even going to give it a chance. People these days mistakingly believe closed-mindedness has 100% bad connotations, but I think it can come from a certain amount of wisdom and experiences and it can be moderated and mitigated to only a few things and you can still be open to a lot of other things. I went on a tangent there, but to get to the point, I just have no interest in rage and the experience of Doom 3 and everything I learned about John Carmack has led my pre-conceived judgement that I wouldn't enjoy it.

Maybe he's a changed man, and is actually a human being and not at all like I demonize him out to be, but what he's already done has made me decide to never forgive him even if he completely turns around. It's sad and bitter, yeah, but that's my extremely opinionated fanboy perspective.

And when more than a couple handfuls of people work on a project, the wide range of views, personalities, and talents can be all over the spectrum, and it's nowhere near as likely that all of them would care passionately about the project as much as 5 guys making a cute little DOS sidescroller would.

But probably, I'm just growing up. This generation of gaming is ahead of my time and I'm just not a little kid who's obsessed with the newest video games anymore.
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wiivn · Vorticon Elite Joined: 08 Jan 2008 Posts: 1408

Yes, it's time to change your name to VikingMenBill and become a true Viking!!

Flaose · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 15:39 Post subject:

More like VikingManWilliam, but I digress.

John Carmack is an excellent programmer, Rage will be nothing if not technically very impressive and groundbreaking (especially when it comes to lighting). Hopefully it's fun too.

As for having "the originals" working on it, I'm with Galaxieretter. People get older, tastes and abilities change. I wouldn't get too hung up on who's working at id and who isn't.
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Paramultart · VBB's Partner in Crime Joined: 26 Jul 2010 Posts: 1797

VikingBoyBilly · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 19:48 Post subject:

Now I know how John Carmack built the engine in one night. It's Doom 3 with space for more polygons in the models. Just to be expected, it's linear and brimming with cutscene dialogue in a game that has no story to justify so much talking. Does Carmack know his target audience are the mid 20 yr olds playing skulltag, NOT the curse-spewing 13 year olds that never get tired of halo? Garg-darn it, carmack, why?

But just look at the comments. Those idiots are eating this garg up. There's no hope left for the future of games.
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CKeen · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 22:17 Post subject:

Galaxieretter speaks the truth here, folks. He pretty much sums up my opinion but there's a few more things I'd like to state:

VikingBoyBilly · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:06 Post subject:

CKeen · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:37 Post subject:

VikingBoyBilly · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:11 Post subject:

I think Doom 3 could have been good, with the engine and features it had, if the maps were just designed in a way that wasn't so linear. I understand they had to put visportals in the doors to only render a room in a map when the player sees it, but I don't think that was a huge obstacle in making multiple pathways that was at least longer than one small hallway or just a door to an office room where the PDA (as in the key to the next area) is just a few feet away from the place you need to use it, and the thing that consumes your time in getting it is the demons spawning in the area.
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