Public Commander Keen Forum

KeenEmpire · Intellectuality Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 733

Someone's going to have to explain this to me Holy Crap!

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"In order to ensure our security, and continuing stability, the Kingdom has been reorganized into the First Vorticon Intellectuality!"

elecdude33 · Mad Mushroom Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 398

Keening_Product · Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:03 Post subject:

thehackercat · Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 23:19 Post subject:

"We the People of the Public Commander Keen Forum, in order to establish a less butthurt community..."

In all seriousness, I think community-reviewed rules are a good idea. Either we could vote to appoint a panel of non-moderators, who would then review the rules, or we could go the long route of having everyone vote. Of course, we could also draft a set of rules and then the mods and the rest of the community could reach a consensus on which ones stay and which ones leave.

Flaose · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:49 Post subject:

I personally find the rules both comprehensive and fair. What kinds of additions/changes are you guys thinking of?
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tulip · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:40 Post subject:

Interesting to see how Ceilick comes off as the dictator, while I think I have banned more people over the time, banned more IPs (I'm not even sure anyone else except me does this), and the only permaban I can remember was by Flaose.
Usually Ceilick is the guy issuing out a warning to all members of a discussion gone wrong until he bans them, people that are instantly banned are repeat-offenders, no innocent bystanders. Some nitpicky people migt say they haven't got a warning, simply because a warning in that same thread wasn't addressed personally to them, but I don't wanna rant about this.

Several other points have been brought up:
Locking is a better measure than banning: Well as I see it this is like prison and fines: if you only have to pay a fine you're not gonna care much, i.e. not learn a lesson, or even realize you did something wrong. If your action is grave enough for a ban, then you'll get a ban. You not liking it is exactly the point.
I stand behind the biggest part of the bans that have been issued. Not all but that's normal if you have several people moderating. Just trying to emphasize that I don't see someone as the black sheep of moderators as has been implied by some here.

Americans, Democracy, vote for rules:
These arguments make me laugh for the most time, as does "This is a free country!" when someone has stolen from the supermarket. Almost completely beside the point, plus the pckf, as Ceilick has pointed out multiple times, is neither a country nor a democracy. None of the moderators have been voted.
As for the rules, I'd also like to see which ones are seen as so ridiculous or oppressive that you feel intimidated by them. Suggestions about improving them can be made, but bare in mind that decision stays with the moderators, reason see previous paragraph.
At the point we (I) were introducing the rules I didn't want to do this but was forced since people were deliberately trying to make things unpleasant to prove they can. Later we had to revise them, and yes even make them more strict, because people (may have been partly the same ones I don't remember) have tried to show us loopholes. So essentially I'm against having to have rules, but I'm not against reviewing them.

Anyway, overall this whole thread seems like a relatively decent discussion so far, which is a surprise considering how it started. Only one I really don't understand is Keening_Product atm, except the rules suggestion.
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You crack me up little buddy!

VikingBoyBilly · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 15:15 Post subject:

CKeen · Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 15:54 Post subject:

First, I would like to say that VBB's latest post is easily the best post I've seen in years and perfectly describes the situation while at the same time proposing logical solutions. About time someone uses actual logic.

Second, if I remember correctly, the forum rules were added exactly for rule #2 (Don't spam post: saying things like "yay 900th post", "what", and other irrelevant things is not okay.). Back then people like mortimermcmirestinks or LJH were making extremely retarded posts that were both unfunny and just caused spam, and I'm very glad LJH was banned. Back then I was one of those complaining that those people were let off the hook with no consequences whatsoever, but some people might say, "first you complain there isn't any control, now you say there is too much of it?", to which my answer is that I had a problem with spam and useless drama, not with jokes or other harmless posts.

I'm not sure if we still need rules around now that LJH is gone, since he was the one posting most of the dumb threads and telling people in private messages to suck his balls.
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Ceilick · The Dude Joined: 22 Sep 2008 Posts: 1308 Location: Seattle

I agree with Tulip and glad he made a number of statements I wanted to but knew you guys would jump on if it was me. As both Flaose and Tulip have mentioned, a review of the rules by the forum is fine with me.

TerminILL · Skypest Joined: 23 Oct 2009 Posts: 588 Location: In a box.

here lies pckf
died because of drama

personally, crap like this thread discourages me from caring about the forums more than any given incidents. frankly I'm amazed Ceilick bothers moderating at all considering what he has to put up with.

also: PCKF has been going to hell for a while now. you're standing on a sinking ship and just now wondering why things are starting to get wet. remember Cereal?
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Commander Spleen · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:45 Post subject:

The Keen Commander · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:57 Post subject:

I personally have no problem whatsoever with the way the forum has been moderated. Of course, I'm not out to cause trouble either. If anyone wants to jump all over me for that, go for it.
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I'd like to get a Futurama mod going. Here's what I've got so far:

http://www.pckf.com/viewtopic.php?t=2152

Keening_Product · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:09 Post subject:

"I think what keening_product was trying to say was that this place had a more charming atmosphere when there weren't multiple mods." - Nah, not quite. The multiple mods are fine, and the mods themselves are fine. Was just saying there was character in people breaking rules some of the time.

And yaknow, having stepped back and actually thought about this, I've realised I'm mostly here for Keen these days, and that's what this forum can still provide regardless of moderation.

I stand by my previous suggestions, but I logged in just now hoping to see Keen and saw next to nothing. (I accept that I'm probably partially the cause of that by being involved with this thread, which seems to be driving people away on its own.) Who wants to do some kind of community project just to re-focus and, yaknow, be Keenish? Not a mod or levelpack, but something we can all do? (Make a new thread if you like the idea to keep this one on-topic, but if there's no interest I'm not gonna make a relatively directionless thread somewhere which no one posts in.)
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VikingBoyBilly · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:19 Post subject:

elecdude33 · Mad Mushroom Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 398

This might be the last post I make in this thread (MIGHT, as in if I post again that doesn't mean I broke a promise).

Here's what it boils down to for me: I came to PCKF, back when I first did, ultimately because Keen was fun and finding out there were more people who liked the series increased the fun. Learning about modding, level editing, seeing fan art and different people's thoughts on Keen is fun for me. I'm here for Keen and Keen-related things.

As I grew up, I started to notice more that although forums can be fun, they're never perfect. There are stupid arguments, pointless posts, arguable mod or admin decisions, bannings and thread lockings. That stuff? It was always there. I just didn't always see it. I don't like it. I'm not here to argue, which is why I always feel a little uneasy even posting in this sort of thread.

I hope this can get sorted out. I do have a fondness for this place, which is why I occasionally come back for a while. On the other hand, it's time for me to accept that online communities, just like offline ones, will always change.

PCKF, I want to thank you. Through the good times, and the bad, ultimately I don't think I'd be who I am now without you. Learning about Keen, about modding, level design, and much more has been important to me. You've helped shape the way I think about Keen and the way I see games in general. If I hadn't gone for it and made that crappy old Keen 0 mod, I might've been sitting around wondering what it's really like to make my own levels.

And I remember Xky being there to give me constructive criticism when I was working on the mod. How KeenRush told me he liked it. The time I saw a review saying it was a piece of crap. That hurt, but that was important to me too. I think of how talking to CommanderSpleen helped change the way I think of level and game design in general. The PCKF was there to keep the game I loved alive in my mind so much longer than it might have been, and to help the kid who drew his own levels on paper discover how to bring them to life.

I know this is sappy. I may be pouring my heart out. I may be misremembering all sorts of things. This isn't goodbye, this is just "thank you, but from now on I'll stick to the parts of the community I enjoy the most".

Happy